1 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,160 This is Lindsay and this is Corey. And 2 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:17,920 each of them has written a story for 3 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,400 today. We'll be taking up Lindsay's 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,240 story first and I'll take up Corey's 5 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:24,240 story. But first, we're going to talk 6 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:28,480 about a classic famous American story by 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,519 Ernest Hemingway called Indian Camp. So, 8 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:32,960 this story has all the the 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,680 quintessential elements of a of a 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,079 classic Hemingway story. The u nature of 11 00:00:40,079 --> 00:00:42,559 the style, the movement of the story, 12 00:00:42,559 --> 00:00:45,360 the pacing, what is put in and 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,680 particularly what's left out, what is 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,280 implicit, what's implied. Um just a 15 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,640 minimum of characters. no last names, 16 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,480 characters who are related to one 17 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,120 another in ways that might be a little 18 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,199 bit mysterious, but if you read it 19 00:01:01,199 --> 00:01:04,159 carefully, you can figure it out. So 20 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:06,159 people who are used to reading a story 21 00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:09,200 by Henry James, let's say Edith Wharton, 22 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,479 reading this story, a Will Cather 23 00:01:12,479 --> 00:01:14,320 reading this story, the average reader 24 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:16,640 might barely have really wondered what 25 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,360 it was about. And the average reader at 26 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,520 that time would have felt the ending was 27 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,040 just 28 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,040 totally 29 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,920 almost shocking because it's so abrupt. 30 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,240 And readers at that time were used to a 31 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,960 more rounded ending. Readers were used 32 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:36,159 to being told what to think. 33 00:01:36,159 --> 00:01:38,960 And in a story by most of Hemingway's 34 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:40,479 contemporaries, 35 00:01:40,479 --> 00:01:42,400 the characters in the story, at least 36 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,479 one of the characters, would have 37 00:01:44,479 --> 00:01:47,759 certain thoughts that would tell the 38 00:01:47,759 --> 00:01:50,079 reader what to think. Now, Hemingway 39 00:01:50,079 --> 00:01:52,079 leaves all that out. He leaves a lot of 40 00:01:52,079 --> 00:01:54,640 things out. Therefore, though he wrote 41 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,600 the story a long time ago, it still is 42 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,360 very contemporary. In some ways, it 43 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,520 seems completely contemporary of our 44 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,119 time. So, um, just anything you want to 45 00:02:05,119 --> 00:02:07,600 say about the the story as a as a 46 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,360 reading experience? 47 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,360 Just in general, it just makes me think 48 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,080 about how much Himmingway trusts um his 49 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,080 reader uh to 50 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,400 kind of co co-create the story along 51 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,720 alongside him. Um, which is true of most 52 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,480 of his stories that I've read. And uh it 53 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,879 it strikes me that that takes a lot of 54 00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:30,560 like confidence in uh in your in your 55 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,080 reader because and you have to 56 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,239 relinquish some control there and leave 57 00:02:34,239 --> 00:02:36,319 room for misinterpretations and things. 58 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:38,160 I think maybe as young writers, I know 59 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:39,920 this is a problem for me, 60 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:41,760 uh you want to have you want to direct 61 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,080 somebody's emotional response very 62 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,080 closely. Um and if you write in this 63 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,720 style, that's just not a possibility or 64 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,239 it's less of a possibility, I would say. 65 00:02:50,239 --> 00:02:51,920 Yeah, that's a very good point that he 66 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:54,319 trusts readers to read carefully. So, 67 00:02:54,319 --> 00:02:55,840 you really have to read the story more 68 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,879 more than once. Hemingway is Hemingway 69 00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:00,640 is easy to read, but he's not easy to 70 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:01,840 understand. 71 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,959 And the famous Hemingway dialogue seems 72 00:03:04,959 --> 00:03:06,640 as if it's natural, but it's really 73 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:08,640 stylized, and people don't don't 74 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,400 actually talk that way at all. It's it's 75 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:11,360 a very 76 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,760 a sort of almost like a post-modernist 77 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,360 sort of appropriation of how people 78 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,040 talk, but it's not really literal. 79 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,280 Then we notice the vocabulary is scaled 80 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,840 down. So it could be the vocabulary of a 81 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,760 boy about eight or nine. I think that's 82 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,040 how how old he is. I love that 83 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,040 beginning. At the at the lake shore 84 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,959 there was another rowboat drawn up. 85 00:03:34,959 --> 00:03:38,159 Period. The two Indians stood waiting. 86 00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:41,040 It's just a beautiful opening because it 87 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:42,879 just sets that scene that first little 88 00:03:42,879 --> 00:03:45,280 paragraph. And then Nick and his father 89 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,200 got in the stern of the boat and Indian 90 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,760 shoved off. And then uncle George sat in 91 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,599 the stern of the camp rowboat. So there 92 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:53,360 are two boats and these different 93 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,000 Indians who are who are rowing them. But 94 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,319 the first paragraph sets that scene 95 00:03:58,319 --> 00:04:00,000 which is impersonal. And then the next 96 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,959 one brings us immediately that intimacy 97 00:04:02,959 --> 00:04:06,640 of Nick. And then Nick heard the orlocks 98 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,879 of the other boat away ahead of them. So 99 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:10,239 we know we're going to be in Nick's 100 00:04:10,239 --> 00:04:12,239 head. The second paragraph we don't know 101 00:04:12,239 --> 00:04:15,200 that yet. But the third paragraph we're 102 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,840 in Nick's consciousness. Then Nick lay 103 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:19,919 back with his father's arm around him 104 00:04:19,919 --> 00:04:22,720 which is so touching and again it's very 105 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,720 unusual in Hemingway this sort of 106 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,199 physical presence. So we know that he's 107 00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:30,240 a little really a little boy. We will 108 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,720 wonder later why on earth the father 109 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,400 brought the little boy out with him and 110 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,960 and we wonder like what kind of judgment 111 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,400 was that to bring a little boy to 112 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,600 attend a child birth basically 113 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,919 especially at a time in history when men 114 00:04:47,919 --> 00:04:50,320 went nowhere near a delivery room and 115 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,880 you know men were not not welcome and to 116 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,720 bring a nine-year-old boy there seems 117 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,639 really uh really really strange. 118 00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:01,440 So, what else about the story strikes 119 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:02,960 you? 120 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,880 Tell me what you think Uncle George is 121 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,000 doing there. 122 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,320 Yeah, I think how I read it is it seems 123 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,560 like George is the father of the baby 124 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,800 who's being delivered. And that's kind 125 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,560 of played upon where he's lighting 126 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,520 cigars and this kind of celebratory, 127 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,880 you know, Labor Day sort of, you know, 128 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,360 she's delivering a child, but it's 129 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:26,320 almost a parody. 130 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:27,120 Yeah. 131 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:27,520 of it 132 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,960 kind of vulgar. Yeah. And Corey, did you 133 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:31,840 have any thoughts? 134 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:33,840 Um, yeah, that's a that's a theme I've 135 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:35,520 seen in other Hemingway stories as well. 136 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,360 The idea of the sort of um I guess 137 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,080 cuckled man comes up a lot in Hemingway. 138 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,240 And um in this case, it's interesting 139 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,080 because he's going into an indigenous 140 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:47,840 community, which is this. So, it's this 141 00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:50,720 very kind of colonial violence where not 142 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,039 only is he like extracting resources 143 00:05:53,039 --> 00:05:54,639 possibly, we're not sure why he's there, 144 00:05:54,639 --> 00:05:55,919 but also he's 145 00:05:55,919 --> 00:05:57,840 now like extracting populations from 146 00:05:57,840 --> 00:05:59,759 this community. It's a very uh 147 00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:01,680 disturbing possibility. 148 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,520 I think in the 21st century, the story 149 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,120 is even more disturbing than it was at 150 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,039 the time because, as you said, it's like 151 00:06:07,039 --> 00:06:09,199 colonizing and they're logging. They're 152 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:10,639 they're cutting down the logs and 153 00:06:10,639 --> 00:06:12,560 they're they're exploiting and, you 154 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,800 know, raping the women and so forth. So 155 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,120 we read it with much much more um 156 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,199 judgmental eyes I think than the people 157 00:06:19,199 --> 00:06:20,960 who who are the contemporaries. 158 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:21,600 Mhm. 159 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,600 But what I love about this story is the 160 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,919 sparness and then the beautiful ending. 161 00:06:25,919 --> 00:06:28,560 It's such it's such a thrilling ending. 162 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,240 The sun is coming up over the hills. 163 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,800 It's like this new day. A bass jumped 164 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,520 making a circle in the water. Nick 165 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,360 traded his hand in the water. It felt 166 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,000 warm in a sharp chill of the morning. So 167 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,600 the ending is very carefully written 168 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,440 after this this dramatic dialogue and we 169 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,319 feel that the story is now coming to an 170 00:06:48,319 --> 00:06:50,800 end with some meaning. So what do you 171 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,759 make of the last two paragraphs? Yeah, I 172 00:06:53,759 --> 00:06:57,680 think it's um we also have this sort of 173 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,880 very kind of sensual like his hand is in 174 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,680 the water and the sun is coming up over 175 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,080 the hills. There's a lot going on with 176 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:09,680 nature there. It almost seems like it's 177 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,680 going to be uplifting, 178 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,639 but then this last paragraph, it ends on 179 00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:18,400 sort of this very delusional note. 180 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,319 It's very beautifully written, isn't it? 181 00:07:20,319 --> 00:07:22,240 It's sort of like the camera is moving 182 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,720 out now and they're they're moving 183 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,880 along. Corey, did you have any any 184 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:27,280 thought? 185 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,360 Well, just it's worth pointing out the 186 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:30,720 strength of the dialogue obviously, 187 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,800 right? I mean, as you mentioned earlier, 188 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,199 there's no tags. It's just line line and 189 00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:38,160 to pull that off is very, very hard. and 190 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,400 you're right there the whole time. Um, I 191 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,160 don't think Hemingway very often gives 192 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,000 you the sort of uplift after the the 193 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,960 downturn. So, it's kind of nice to see 194 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:48,319 the boat scene. 195 00:07:48,319 --> 00:07:49,520 Um, despite the fact that it's 196 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,199 delusional is this kind of scene of of 197 00:07:51,199 --> 00:07:53,199 as you said, censuous beauty. 198 00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:54,960 That's such a wonderful sensuous 199 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,879 observation that you would only know if 200 00:07:56,879 --> 00:07:59,280 you were somebody who spent time on the 201 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,599 water. The the morning air is is cool, 202 00:08:03,599 --> 00:08:07,120 but the water still feels a little warm. 203 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,280 And the idea of this the fish jumping. 204 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,319 It's like new life is coming and the sun 205 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:14,720 is coming up. Now this is I think a 206 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,720 wonderful ending. In an early morning on 207 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,319 the lake sitting in the stern of the 208 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:21,199 boat with his father rowing comma he 209 00:08:21,199 --> 00:08:25,039 felt quite sure that he would never die. 210 00:08:25,039 --> 00:08:27,360 Now that's the most unusual Hemingway 211 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,840 sentence because it has all these uh 212 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,399 parts to it. Most of the sentences are 213 00:08:32,399 --> 00:08:35,200 short and declarative. here in the early 214 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,959 morning on the lake sitting in the stern 215 00:08:38,959 --> 00:08:43,200 of the boat with his father rowing, 216 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,279 he felt quite sure that he would never 217 00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:47,040 die. 218 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,040 And you can really unpack that sentence 219 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,120 has so much meaning like the idea that 220 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:52,880 the father is rowing the boat and he's 221 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,200 safe and protected by his father. The 222 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:56,800 little boy feels quite sure that he 223 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,360 would never die. So it's almost as if 224 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,839 there's an emphasis on the word he that 225 00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:04,880 that he felt sure that he would never 226 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,800 die or he would never die but he feels 227 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,680 protected by the father in our time as 228 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:13,360 one of these great works of American 229 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,519 literature. When it came out people 230 00:09:15,519 --> 00:09:16,959 didn't know how to read it. I mean there 231 00:09:16,959 --> 00:09:18,720 were a few people who who read it of 232 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,000 course and he got great reviews but the 233 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,320 average reader I think would been quite 234 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,680 puzzled by it. So the typical Hemingway 235 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:29,760 story and this is very famous and I'm 236 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,000 sure you all know this but Hemingway 237 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,519 talks about literature being um an 238 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:38,080 iceberg and you see only the visible 239 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,640 part which is a small fraction. So the 240 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,560 iceberg goes beneath the surface of the 241 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:45,760 water and all of Hemingway's short 242 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,560 stories especially these early ones they 243 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:50,800 have this dark 244 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,920 uh enigmatic quality to them. So what's 245 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,399 under the water is implied, but you 246 00:09:56,399 --> 00:09:59,120 don't know it, you know. So it's the the 247 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:04,480 acknowledgment of death that Nick 248 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,640 is rejecting and he thinks he's not 249 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,120 going to die. The father and uncle 250 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,519 George are much closer to the actual 251 00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:14,000 experience of the death and they know 252 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,880 that somebody has been driven, the 253 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,040 Indian man has been driven really to 254 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,160 commit suicide. So, just one last thing 255 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,399 about why the story is important to to 256 00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:26,480 read. First of all, it's a masterpiece 257 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,760 of brevity. There isn't anything that's 258 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,000 that's um ex extraneous. I've seen an 259 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,800 early part of an early draft of this and 260 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,800 it's so shocking. Right on the first 261 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,360 page, there was a little paragraph, Nick 262 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,399 remembered church the week before. 263 00:10:44,399 --> 00:10:46,959 And I thought, "No, that's not 264 00:10:46,959 --> 00:10:50,399 Hemingway." You know, like he he wrote 265 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:52,320 that paragraph like Nick remembered when 266 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,720 he was church previous Sunday and then 267 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,320 he obviously when he read it, he he 268 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,120 crossed it out and it seems so important 269 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,200 that he took that out because there's no 270 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,320 backstory 271 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,320 and Hemingway almost never has a 272 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,399 backstory. The characters move very 273 00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:09,040 swiftly and you don't you don't get 274 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,040 dragged down or there's no accumulation 275 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,760 of the past. So that's sort of the 276 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,000 feeling of modernism and in the 20th 277 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,200 century and moving moving quickly. Now 278 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,160 just one final thing. When Hemingway was 279 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,079 this young writer, he he went away to 280 00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:28,160 live in Paris and he was uh writing in 281 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,040 longhand and he would write about his 282 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,760 memories of being in Northern Michigan. 283 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,640 And so he would write maybe for a couple 284 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,360 of hours he would be writing just 285 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:40,959 writing. 286 00:11:40,959 --> 00:11:44,480 And then he said, "And then I wrote my 287 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,360 first true sentence." 288 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,279 Now that could be an hour later or two 289 00:11:49,279 --> 00:11:51,519 hours, maybe it could be the next day. 290 00:11:51,519 --> 00:11:53,839 So the first true sentence of this story 291 00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:56,480 is the one that's here. 292 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,040 So we don't know everything he threw 293 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,680 away. So I think that's so exciting and 294 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:04,000 such a great idea for for a writer to 295 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,639 know that Hemingway would sit and write 296 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:08,720 like preliminary, you know, just writing 297 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,720 and writing and writing. But then at one 298 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,519 point he'll write a sentence that's the 299 00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:17,440 my one true sentence and that's the 300 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,680 beginning of the story. I feel that's 301 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:23,000 sort of triumphant.